governments control of the mass media

[chonce]

It will be reported that this war was a flawless thing of beauty. It is obvious how the government has continually lied to us for decades and anything you learn will come through the mass media, which right now is own by corporations who benefit from these "positive" outcomes (hence the quality entertainment we're getting). Here is how it will work:

1. Chemical and/or biological weapons WILL be found, even if it kills them, or even if they have to be "manufactured". Without them, George looks too much like it's personal or overly aggressive and he can't have that.

2. Of course there are massive civilian casualties. Did you see the videos? Did it look like they were bombing in the vastness of the open desert? Of course, you are going to be told that the deaths were "minimal" or the news will be presented in a way such that is sounds like civilians had sufficient warning and it was their own fault (like they had somewhere they could go).

3. Peaceful rebuilding will never happen. Much like in Yugoslavia, once a powerful despot is removed, the in-fighting is free to take place, because it was the very dictator who prevented it. There are three factions (Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites) in Iraq who all hate each other and groups within these groups who also hate each other. We will be lied to again by being told all is fine while we support whoever is most advantageous for us (probably weathy Sunni moslems). This will mean purges and genocides until we have to come back and "fix" that.

Cut and paste this, cause I guarantee all 3 of these things happen

 

[radiofreecostarica]

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/kelly/what.htm

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/us-iraq-lie.html



Food for thought.

 

[Jazz]

chonce: your post is the epitome of why I am not really getting all excited to try to convince you and others like you of anything. You have already made a decision on the future regardless of the facts yet to be shown - I knew some of you would and will never accept it when the WMDs are found, instead claiming they were manfufactured, because your agenda cannot allow that you may be wrong. Mine doesn't. Your agenda demands that EVERYTHING the government is doing is a lie, or nearly so - mine doesn't. Your agenda further demands that the removal of a brutal regime result in instant peace in Iraq, else you will perceive failure - mine doesn't.

Would you be happier if Saddam had maintained 'control' over these groups in his own way? Apparently so. I don't. Yes, it will be difficult, but the alternative is far worse.

I knew when I first began posting here that regardless of any facts shown to be true, some would turn a blind eye to them and claim it was a government lie. It is impossible to argue with conspiracists of any persuasion, right or left, and I am not going to do it any longer. That doesn't mean others in particular, but it does mean you. Not out of spite, but the sheer uselessness of my energy with respect to answering your posts demands it.

p.s. Those strikes, whether you like it or not, did not cause massive civilian casualties.

 

chonce......are you american..and where in our great country,if i might ask...just curious....thanks for your response in advance...

 

[Oceans11]

The Bildeberg Group meetings are an interesting case of media manipulation.

Some of the biggest people in the world meet for a few days each year for a chinwag at an exotic hotel/sportsclub somewhere in the world.
Politicians, Industrialists, bankers etc

Theres no press coverage, TV coverage, nothing, because the people there own or run the media, and they are under orders to stay away.

Decent research material on them is hard to find. A lot of the info you get on them and the Trilateral commission is on conspiracy nutter sites.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> because your agenda cannot allow that you may be wrong <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not fair Jazz. Both sides here are the same. Your opinion is chit & so is ours on this issue. Your statement applies as much to you as any others.

 

[chonce]

propaghanda is nothing new in our country. Even in the revolutionary war the leading rebels exaggerated the amount of taxes that were imposed on them greatly.(Though the revolution was still a noble cause) and the phrase "no taxation without representation" was nothing but a catchy rallying cry. We didnt actually want representation, it would have been useless.

Anyways, the point I am making is that the Government is very willing to iie, fabricate or manipulate the truth in order to assure strong public relations. To think otherwise, is in my humble opinion, very naive.

Had the government been less eager to bomb the piss out of Iraq, and continues to try to dusarm Saddamm in a peaceful manner, then I would not have cried conspiricy.

Feel free to stop responding to my posts. I have grown sadly aware that most americans would rather not know the reality of our situation. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the Government is very willing to lie, fabricate or manipulate the truth in order to assure strong public relations. To think otherwise, is in my humble opinion, very naive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And kill too.

 

chonce

your ignorance knows no bounds -- you have to be the first person EVER to say that the media is conservatively biased!

why do you live here?

first Iraq, then France

 

[Jazz]

Wrong, General: I have said, and still maintain, that I will admit it if I am wrong. I am not saying the government never lies, I'm saying I don't believe they are with respect to Iraq. At such time I find out that they have in some way, be damned sure I will admit it. But, given chonce's words, he already is setting up a straw dog in the form of 'manufactured' WMDs in the event they are found - THAT is agenda-driven, not fact-driven.

 

Ok.

But, I would not put it past our government to plant evidence here. I think there are WMD though. Maybe we will find out the hard way.

 

[Jazz]

chonce: feel free to doubt everything you are told with respect to Iraq - that's your right. Also, I cannot continue to debate whether Saddam would have disarmed peacefully - I already have, I cannot think of other phrases or ways to state that I think anyone who believes otherwise is, as you put it, 'naive'.

 

chonce.....just a harmless question....where are you located?.....if you choose not to say,just say so....thanks...

 

[chonce]

Hanesen Bros.
I am from Boston. Not that is matters, as we all watch the same national coverage.

You dont find it odd that the pictures of war we are seeing are pretty much being celebrated by the media (with a few exceptions). This is not a fireworks display, it is death. I realize you are way more trusting of the government-media relationship than I, but I dont think it is a coincidence, that we are only seeing and hearing things that glorify America.

Hansen, I feel that you are unwilling to be skeptical. I know many conservatives who understand the manipulation of the media by the government. This is not some wild conspiricay theory.

 

chonce

why are you so afraid of the glorification of the country which you call home.

why are you full of cynicism toward your own country???

why do you chose to live here???

first Iraq, then France

 

[radiofreecostarica]

Handsen,

Do you ever state any facts or do you simply enjoy insulting others?
Its just a wonder that in your vast knowledge of events you have not contributed as much to these discussions.

 

[chonce]

1. I am not afraid of glorifying the country if it is deserved. I feel however, in this case it is not. Furthermore I feel that the media should be objective, which they are not doing.

2.I am full of cyncisim because there are many reasons to be cynical. Gradually our rights that are protected by the constitution, are being diminished in favor of security. We claim to be the land of the free, yet we have more people in jail per capita than any other country.We continually try ot leglislate morals (gambling, prohibition, prostitution etc...). We are subjected to a bi-partisan system that gives no other practical alternative, as a result of soft money, and campaign financing. I am cynical because I am frustrated,

3. I love America. I know you may have a hard time believing that, but it is absolutley true. I think the principles upon which our government was founded, bill of rights, declaration of independence are near perfect. What I love about them most, is the fact that it gives the poeple to power to govern. It provides us with the unalienable rights to voice our displeasure with its current state. The notion that one must "Love it or leave it' is within itself inherently un-american. THe american way is "love it or change it". Thats what I am trying to do. (to a large amount of oppostion) I allude to our forefathers often, because they knew what they were doing. I critisize our current leaders, becasue they ignore the basic principles of our constitution. (profiling, wiretaps, cival forfeture rights, an emphasis for security over freedom etc...) . For me to shut up and follow the leader, would be un-american. I choose to speak. I think much of what is going on now(the war and otherwise) is bullshit, and unamerican(in some cases directly unconstitional). To shut up and deal with with it may be more practical, but not true to myself or my country. I would rather be a frustrated idealist, that a content pragmatist anyday.

Just how I feel.

 

[oldmantime]

One thing--we can agree on is that big corporations OWN the media. I will guarantee that. So one has to be a little suspicious of what they report. Now the government--well that would take me too long to give my views on.

 

chonce

great post! thought-out, well written!

we agree! -- i agree that we are losing freedoms at the sake of security, and i don't like it either.

i also agree that we have no business in moral legislation -- i call them victimless crimes.

however, none of this has to do with this war.
and if you were honest with yourself, i believe you would admit that our forefathers would be involved in this war just the same.
gotta go to dinner w/ the wife and friends (am getting yelled at right now) discuss this more later.

GL!

first Iraq, then France

 

[chonce]

Hansen,

Glad we found some common ground. I hope you enjoyed your dinner. I am going to spend the rest of the day watching hoops and attempting to recover from a night of youthful debauchery.

Good Luck!